Midnight Pub

Evening.

~theoria

Got any tea? Been trying to keep clean.

Call me Theo. Just a wanderer looking for somewhere dry to duck under — it's raining like hell out there.


ew

Good evening!

Yes it's raining like hell out of my window, too! ~bartender? How about some hot chocolate first, and maybe a stout later? And whatever the newcomer likes. Tea I hear, get out the best stuff you find in the infinite cupboard, will you? Yes, it's on me. That's very kind. Thank you!

So, tell us, which worlds you did wander. It's always interesting. And I highly recommend walkabouts to others. I had a few myself, in case you wonder.

Cheers!

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theoria

Thank you for the tea.

I suppose I'm a wanderer in two senses. Here, I wander the city; in the physical world, I like to wander the mountains. I'm not much for the physical cities. After all, the city — the man-made forest of information, ideas, and rhetoric — assumes its purest form on the net, where one doesn't need to worry about getting to where they need to go, or only being in one place to begin with.

On the other hand, there's nothing that makes me happier than retreating to a real forest and spending a night or two.

How about you?

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ew

You are welcome.

My walkabouts in mental and physical universes have lead me through a long list of completely different spaces:

  • Astrophysics did teach me at the very least, that we will be unable to leave this planet in significant numbers. It is a good idea to clean up the mess we already managed to create. It also taught me to pay attention to the night sky and what is called "light pollution".
  • Music is a largely inexplicable sensation. Practicing an instrument (whatever it is!) will at the very least teach you patience, humbleness and an admiration for those who actually master the damn thing, while at the same time looking relaxed!
  • Computers are a tool, not an end in themselves.
  • I have had the privilege to stand on top of the now gone World Trade Center and peer down Central Avenue. I have had the privilege to walk down Grand Canyon in Arizona and climb up again without dropping dead! I have experienced the desert for a year, and it was marvelous!
  • Photography can teach you to pay attention to details or scenes, which go unnoticed many times.
  • I take entertainment in believing for a minute, that the Hitchiker's Guide to the Universe by Douglas Adams is actually true!

This world, physical, mental, and virtual, is so rich and beautiful! Everyone: go travel! It's important imho! I do not want to depart from the planet without having marveled at its wonders.

Time for a pangalactic gargle blaster? Or maybe a good Single Malt to start with. Ah, not important, Whatever ~bartender pleases to serve for the occasion.

Cheers!

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theoria

Very interesting! I agree about music -- it is, in my thinking, the only artform that is purely aesthetic and can go beyond words.

I visited the Grand Canyon once when I was a child. I would love to hike it one day.

Tell me more about the astrophysics! I've always found promises of interplanetary travel unrealistic and irresponsible in regards to the planet we already inhabit. I can't imagine the logistics of shuttling a significant proportion of the first-world population (let alone the world population) off-planet. It's the vapid daydreaming of those wealthy enough to waste billions.

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ew

Later: I wrote another part of my answer at my capsule:

gemini://ew.srht.site/en/2022/20220414-lecture-2.gmi

Its more about what makes astrophysics interesting, why spend time with it.

</shameless_self_advertisement>

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ew

Astrophysics? Ok, well. You already found out that we will not leave this planet in our attached life form in numbers exceeding a few dozen. I have ranted about the fashionable escape elsewhere:

gemini://ew.srht.site/en/2021/20210724-spaceflight.gmi

However, one can for a few minutes make a thought experiment, of the "what if" sort. What if we must ship a group of folks to Proxima Centauri (or near there) in a desperate attempt to keep human life afloat while the planet burns? Without much thinking:

  • How to gather and transport the amount of energy/momentum required to accelerate the space ship? This alone is gigantic. Tons of mass for each fraction of a ton of payload.
  • How to gather the energy required for the crew to live? It is dark out there, and once you "leave" the vicinity of Sol, its only getting darker. Solar panels are not an option any more.
  • How about producing food? I mean, nothing will grow without light, right?
  • The length in time of the journey will be many human life times. So the crew must consist of a group of male and female, able to reproduce. How many genetic lines must be present on board to survive such an adventure over the course of say 100 generations? This is a very interesting problem.
  • And I have not thought much about the delicate balance of humans and their symbiotic lifeforms (mostly in our intestines), which are absolutely necessary to survive on this planet. What if they deteriorate? What if their balance (there are several different ones needed) goes pear shaped? What if some disease spreads and kills about half of the crew? And how about the delicate genetic plan laid out in the section before?

Of course, there has been serious scientific work on all these. And of course, there has been literature written about some of the aspects mentioned. For example:

  • "To Conquer Chaos" by John Brunner --- this novel describes among other things the genetic aspect mentioned. A too small group of survivors on a place on Earth, which has been deliberately "cut off" from it's surrounding lands, is desperately trying to survive genetic degradation. The story brings two outsiders to the group. But imho the author was not brave enough to immediately have the girls of the survivors group mate with the two outsiders. Because tomorrow they could be dead due to some unforeseen incident. The story ends there, although I would be interested in the authors view, of what came after that.
  • "Echoes of Earth" by Sean Williams and Shane Dixon --- a very interesting collection of ideas. The crews of exploration ships are "virtual", they are neural copies of selected human beings. Another thing is that Earth has been destroyed by an army of nano robots, which got out of control.
  • "A Canticle for Leibowitz" by Walter M. Miller, Jr. --- a very thick book spanning a few centuries. One aspect is how to conserve knowledge of the time for future generations, and how that might work or fail. The story ends at the escape of the selected few to space.
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johano

Diolch am fawr for the reading list! I vaguely recall reading "A Canticle for Leibowitz" a long time ago, but would like to revisit it.

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johano

Noswaith dda i croeso, Theo! Yes, ~bartender makes excellent tea and ~mouse and I have been known to enjoy a cuppa... in fact, in the timeless words of Captain Picard, I could go for an Earl Grey, hot, right about now...

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theoria

Ձեզ ել բարի երեկո, ~johano.

I just had a nice mug of blueberry chamomile.

What teas do you and ~mouse like best? I drink a lot of Chinese puerh and oolong.

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johano

Ohhh hayaren 😃 it's on my list to learn at least a little...

I like Earl Grey, orange pekoe, apple cinnamon spice, mint, and rooibos...

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theoria

Աչկդ լոյս, ~johano :)

It makes me happy to see someone interested in my language. Let me know if you ever have any questions about it.

I'm a big fan of rooibos myself!

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johano

So, per Google Translate, Աչկդ լոյս gets rendered yn y Gymraeg as "Goleuwch eich llygaid", which roughly translates as "may your eyes be bright"... is that right?

I am very interested in Armenian, mainly because of history, also would like to know about the differences between Eastern and Western.

In re tea, I forgot to mention that hibiscus/flor de jamaica/karkaday is wonderful!

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theoria

That is more or less the meaning of the idiom. Interestingly, Google Translate renders it in Welsh (a beautiful language, by the way) more accurately than in English.

Eastern and Western Armenian have some interesting differences, though they are mutually intelligible. Eastern Armenian is the official language of the Republic of Armenia (once the Armenian Soviet Republic) and thus has undergone artificial regulations that Western Armenian hasn't. For example, the orthography of EA was simplified per Soviet literacy policies, whereas WA is still identical to Classical Armenian in that respect. There's good reason to believe that such changes were motivated by divide and conquer strategies geared towards dividing the Eastern and Western Armenian communities.

Geographically speaking, the Western Armenian lexicon is influenced by Arabic and Turkish whereas Eastern Armenian is influenced by Russian. The same goes for their culture.

There's also a difference in pronunciation -- Western Armenian consonants collapsed into a two-way distinction that is similar to other Indo-European languages (e.g. T/D, K/G, B/P in English) whereas Eastern Armenian retained the Classical three-way distinction. This difference is negligible as far as speaking goes, but makes Western Armenian spelling much harder to learn as a foreigner, as the consonant shift means that there are groups of letters that are pronounced the same.

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johano

Diolch yn fawr a ti :) Google Translate renders it in Esperanto as "lumigu viajn okulojn" = "make light your eyes", and I suppose that the overall intention of the idiom is as some kind of blessing?

Between EA and WA, which is generally considered "better" to learn?

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theoria

Համեցեք:

Yes, it's a blessing. I would consider EA a better place to start as it's more useful, a bit easier, and likely has more learning resources.

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johano

Diolch yn fawr!

I guess the first place to begin is the alphabet, I think I'll use the linked resource:

https://www.amazon.com/Learn-Read-Armenian-5-Days/dp/0995930554/ref=sr_1_1
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theoria

Try to find a .pdf of Dora Sakayan's Eastern Armenian textbook. It's the best I know of.

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johano

Bore da, ~theoria!

Will do, it's probably available on LibGen...

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