shiloh

Hi ~inquiry,

I really like this post. I'm in college right now, and as I'm making friends, I'm kind of seeing the difference that good parenting/teaching makes (I guess they're two sides of the same coin). I have 3 buddies that I'm always working out with and hanging out with. We talk a lot about ways to improve ourselves and just be better people (for example, two of us (myself included) have a bad habit of talking shit about other people). One of the things that we have in common are parents that pushed us just hard enough to do a lot of difficult shit and grow from that, and also put an emphasis on developing healthy relationships with others. It's hard for me to describe, but it's like... we've all had the types of relationships with our parents where we bounce moral/life ideas off them and learn from them. I think that kind of relationship is important for creating a mindset of wanting to improve, and it's good to pass it on to others.

(No idea if this made sense, haha)

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inquiry

> (No idea if this made sense, haha)

It did!

Of course, something often forgotten is we understand ("stand under"?) things in private contexts of meanings of words. So there's always the chance you're standing under one car (think: car on a hydraulic lift) representing a set of meanings for commonly exchange word symbols, and I'm under another.

Just sayin'.... :-)

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shiloh

Yeah, that's an important point to make. A good friend of mine is a very (very very) outspoken communist, so almost every time I talk to him I have to make sure I understand what he means with the Marxist terminology and that he gets what I'm saying with the colloquial meanings of the same words.

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inquiry

Gosh, it seems like it's been half of forever since the last time I saw the word 'colloquial'.

Thank you!

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eaplmx

Wife and I don't want to have kids. Maybe bringing more kids to this world is not the best idea with our current overpopulation, but I can only talk for my family.

That being said, my father and my in-laws were teachers and worked with kids. So I see why is a noble job. Also demanding, betting for future kids where they can also be delinquents or evil business people. It's a matter of material conditions, than 'basic education', at least in my region.

As a college professor I see more impact in short term with people in their 18-25 years, than investing on STEAM from younger ages of 6-15, but someone has to do it. So I get your point...

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inquiry

Wife and I don't want to have kids. Maybe bringing more kids to this world is not the best idea with our current overpopulation, but I can only talk for my family.

Sounds wise to me.

That being said, my father and my in-laws were teachers and worked with kids. So I see why is a noble job. Also demanding, betting for future kids where they can also be delinquents or evil business people. It's a matter of material conditions, than 'basic education', at least in my region.

>

As a college professor I see more impact in short term with people in their 18-25 years, than investing on STEAM from younger ages of 6-15, but someone has to do it. So I get your point...

It's a situation where I was really lucky/selfish/stupid most of my life, and I'm suddenly doing something for others, it seems insanely meaningful/rewarding (yet of course draining seemingly beyond my wherewithal), and my original post was not so much an indictment or guilting attempt on anyone, as a invitation to feel that odd alternative to living more for oneself, with the side benefit of maybe improving the future of the species in a way that (bad joke coming in three.. two..) trumps just going tribe yadda yadda online.

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starbreaker

This post really rubs me the wrong way.

First, I don't like strangers telling me how I should spend my time or live my life.

Second, I had to manage without adults "investing in me" and I think today's children can do the same.

Third, what leads you think the average adult has anything worth sharing with children, anyway?

Finally, do you honestly think that after working 40+ hours a week most people have the time, energy, or inclination to invest in kids who aren't their own?

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inquiry

This post really rubs me the wrong way.

Would it rub you even more wrongly reading me admit I'm taking that as evidence of success?

First, I don't like strangers telling me how I should spend my time or live my life.

Yes, I'm familiar with the notion of 'ego'. (Hence my ridiculously unnecessary/obnoxious first sentence worth of response.)

But*, it turns out your replying feels like the possibility of us at least getting past the "strangers" part.

And* I'm actually rather giddy about the prospect. The internet has been a mostly dismal place for me (I admit that could be mostly my fault, but.. still do I wonder...), so I'm always happy to encounter honest intelligence.

Second, I had to manage without adults "investing in me" and I think today's children can do the same.

I'm not impressed with the phrase "had to manage". I believe you should have had it better, and *might* have if more adults had read - and acted upon - a post like the one rubbing you the wrong way before having interacted with you.

Third, what leads you think the average adult has anything worth sharing with children, anyway?

Excellent point.

One thing does come to mind, though: manifesting a level of caring/interest/listening that builds trust in children that maybe at least one adult has more to offer than the nothingness the child is used to from other adults. The fact that someone is listening at all counts given it's obviously easy for a child to experience far less than that.

Finally, do you honestly think that after working 40+ hours a week most people have the time, energy, or inclination to invest in kids who aren't their own?

I do. The proof of it is exchanges like this online, which likely aren't benefitting anyone. Yet we both wasted time engaging in it. We'd have both done greater service to the species doing the bare mininum (i.e. that "manifesting a level of caring/interest/listining" (above)) than this screen hypnosis bullshit.

(Oh dang... no idea why the formatting came out so weird, but I'm drunk off my ass and don't have time to dick with it because I need to get refocused on what to do with my classroom kids tomorrow.....)

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starbreaker

I believe you should have had it better,

Maybe I should have, but I didn't. Life dealt me a hand, and I'm playing it as best I can for myself and for the people I've chosen as my own.

The proof of it is exchanges like this online, which likely aren't benefitting anyone. Yet we both wasted time engaging in it.

You wasted your time. I got the same illusion of social engagement I might have gotten from sites like Reddit, but with less BS. A few idle minutes well spent while keeping an eye on the stove.

We'd have both done greater service to the species doing the bare mininum

It's your life, and you can concern yourself with the good of the species if you like but don't expect me to share your concern.

The species cares nothing for individuals; why should I therefore care for the species? It's not like I've got skin in the game; my wife and I didn't get to have kids so what happens to humanity after I'm dead isn't my problem since we've no empirical evidence of an afterlife other than earthly fame.

I've noticed from your other posts that you're somewhat more of a traditionalist than I am, and we're not likely to agree on a great many issues. Nevertheless, I wish you well because you've done me and mine no harm. I think I'll leave you with a quote from /The Count of Monte Cristo/; maybe it will help you see where I'm coming from:

“Perhaps what I am about to say will appear strange to you gentlemen, socialists, progressives, humanitarians as you are, but I never worry about my neighbor, I never try to protect society which does not protect me -- indeed, I might add, which generally takes no heed of me except to do me harm -- and, since I hold them low in my esteem and remain neutral towards them, I believe that society and my neighbor are in my debt.”

Incidentally, if you begin a line with an asterisk the Midnight will treat it as a bullet point even though you have another one at the end of a word or phrase because you intended Markdown-style italics, because this site treats all text input as Gemtext, not Markdown. If you used Org-mode slashes /like this/ the format wouldn't have gotten mangled.

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inquiry

> You wasted your time. I got the same illusion of social
> engagement I might have gotten from sites like Reddit,
> but with less BS. A few idle minutes well spent while
> keeping an eye on the stove.

Okay, I hereby refactor my original "wasted time" comment to feeling glad to have engaged, because I'm rather enjoying the exchange.

> It's your life, and you can concern yourself with the good
> of the species if you like but don't expect me to share
> your concern.

It's not an expectation. You ever stumble on something - a thought/practice - that really works for you in some way, and you can't help but wonder (or is it hope?) it might for others as well, so you share it in a public space so whoever wants to can try it and maybe benefit similarly?

So the "how I was feeling about what it had accomplished for me" was more along those lines. I was high on having (at least temporarily.. doubts are never far..) thought/acting somewhat less selfishly than usual.

Of course, as I re-read the post I don't see much if any of that therein. It does sound more an indictment of others for not ceasing hiding from some sort of responsibility toward the species.

But, hey... that's part of getting/feeling "high": very easy to take a set of words as though representing inner feelings, but to an onlooker sans the high it looks altogether different.

(*Damn* I need to keep that in mind....)

> The species cares nothing for individuals; why should I
> therefore care for the species? It's not like I've got skin
> in the game; my wife and I didn't get to have kids so what
> happens to humanity after I'm dead isn't my problem since we've
> no empirical evidence of an afterlife other than earthly fame.

Makes sense.

> I've noticed from your other posts that you're somewhat more
> of a traditionalist than I am, and we're not likely to agree
> on a great many issues. Nevertheless, I wish you well because
> you've done me and mine no harm.

Hey, same!

Although* you might be surprised. Somewhat along the lines of that "high" stuff, I can be rather all over the place.

I think mostly I just enjoy intelligent exchange. So maybe I'm actually chameleon-ic? ;-)

> I think I'll leave you with a quote from /The Count of Monte
> Cristo/; maybe it will help you see where I'm coming from:
>
> “Perhaps what I am about to say will appear strange to you
> gentlemen, socialists, progressives, humanitarians as you are,
> but I never worry about my neighbor, I never try to protect
> society which does not protect me -- indeed, I might add, which
> generally takes no heed of me except to do me harm -- and,
> since I hold them low in my esteem and remain neutral towards
> them, I believe that society and my neighbor are in my debt.”

Nice!

> Incidentally, if you begin a line with an asterisk the
> Midnight will treat it as a bullet point even though you
> have another one at the end of a word or phrase because you
> intended Markdown-style italics, because this site treats
> all text input as Gemtext, not Markdown. If you used Org-mode
> slashes /like this/ the format wouldn't have gotten mangled.

Thanks. Hopefully I'll remember. I knew more about Gemtext in the past for a while, but then got away from the pub, and forgot it all. But I do keep past posts, so I'm hoping what I've tried this time accomplishes what I want, which is more the way quoted material looked in USENET posts (by enclosing a block of text in a pair of three backticks).

We'll see.

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starbreaker

You ever stumble on something - a thought/practice - that really works for you in some way, and you can't help but wonder (or is it hope?) it might for others as well, so you share it in a public space so whoever wants to can try it and maybe benefit similarly?

Perhaps, but I don't think I'm as keen to promote things that work for me as something other people should do. I *really* don't like getting a hard sell, so I try not to do that to other people.

Marketing people hate people like me; we almost never provide positve word-of-mouth advertising. (Not like I get paid to advertise, anyway.)

But, hey... that's part of getting/feeling "high": very easy to take a set of words as though representing inner feelings, but to an onlooker sans the high it looks altogether different.

I've had this, too, but usually when writing from anger. I try not to upload or post while angry, though.

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